Joe the Plumber = Fraud?

[White Magic]

This thread is the perfect ad hominem attack - rather than have a discussion about the substance of Joe the Plumber's conversation with Obama, what Obama said to him, let's attack this guy and discredit him any way we can.

Rather than worry about all this extraneous stuff, let's focus on the exchange this man had with Obama. You know, the one where Obama told him the government is better equipped to "spread around" the money of the plumbing business in question than the owner of said business is.

All this "Who is Joe the Plumber" investigation is petty and pathetic. Who he is doesn't matter.

[osu99jp]

Interesting observation on the O'Reilly Factor last night: The "elite media" has/had news trucks and camerapeople parked outside Joe the Plumber's house for the better part of an entire week. This guy can't even get to his mailbox without a mic being shoved in his face.

How many news trucks and camerapeople have ever been stationed outside Bill Ayers' place?

[millslite]

Originally Posted by White Magic

Rather than worry about all this extraneous stuff, let's focus on the exchange this man had with Obama. You know, the one where Obama told him the government is better equipped to "spread around" the money of the plumbing business in question than the owner of said business is.

All this "Who is Joe the Plumber" investigation is petty and pathetic. Who he is doesn't matter.

[Franny]

Maybe if Joe didn't spend all his free time popping up on Fox News blasting democrats, he wouldn't be vetted. McCain mentioned him 21 times during the debate and mentions him 10 times at every stump speech, I'd say the American people have a right to know Joe's true story. He isn't a common joe blow off the street, he's a Republican idealogue who lives in a fantasy world. Implying Joe the Plumber will be taxed into poverty is deception.

Do John McCain & frustrated/desperate right-wingers think we're all that stupid? They act like we currently do not have a progressive tax system. They act like we all pay a flat tax. If taxing the rich at a higher rate is socialism, don't we already have a socialist system? What about the government owned banks? Socialism. Public schools? Socialism. That fireman that comes and saves your cat. He's a commie.

I guess calling Obama a baby killer then terrorist didn't work so now the right will try Socialist, that's such an EVIL word - what is this, 1955?

[osu99jp]

No comment...just laughing.

BENSALEM, Pa. (AP) - In a region experiencing World Series fever, Republican John McCain questioned Democrat Barack Obama's character Tuesday after he expressed support for both teams playing in the upcoming baseball championship.

Standing just miles north of Philadelphia, whose Phillies will represent the National League starting Wednesday against the American League champion Tampa Bay Rays, the Republican presidential nominee noted Obama has identified himself with both teams while campaigning in their two politically important home states.

[master_of_muppets]

i'm officially burned out on the election process. i don't think there is much use arguing or debating the points that have been run to the ground. there's no way franny will put the glass of obamajuice down, just as there's no way i am in favor of taxing anyone more than they already are - rich, super rich or whatever.

so all that's left is for maybe one "big" thing to happen, a true october surprise but i'm not sure even that will happen.

the only thing i'm left interested in is how wrong the polling has been - what part did white guilt play in the polls and mania. if white guilt played a big role, then it's a sad time for america. if it didn't then it's still sad because we'll have elected someone who is clearly not qualified for the job - no experience. whatever.

i just want my clients to stop being nervous and telling me and other businesses how they'll feel better after the election. there are a lot of nervous gatekeepers out there holding up spending lots of money due to this election. i just want it over with.

[bearcat428]

Originally Posted by master_of_muppets

there are a lot of nervous gatekeepers out there holding up spending lots of money due to this election. i just want it over with.

this is too true. there is going to be a lot of activity post election either way. people will either be selling off (stocks and property) or investing will start again.

[master_of_muppets]

i was called into a meeting yesterday with a new client whom wanted to redesign all of their points of contact: web, print collateral, logo, etc. because they see and read a "tightening" coming for 2009. they want everything to be polished and fresh so they can be best equipped and better looking than their competitors when/if this happens.

this was the fifth such meeting i've had in a month, and there are no commonalities between industries. it's across the board from pet food mfgs to commercial builders to food marketers (all client industries of ours).

so that's the good news. the bad news is that there are at least twice as many businesses telling me "after the election." i could be hiring FT employees or at least contracted workers (i.e., CREATING JOBS) right now if it wasn't for the damn election!

[Degobah]

Originally Posted by millslite

If JtP was not such a media whore, this would have died down by now. He's milking this for everything he can, going to NYC and appearing on every cable/talk radio show he can find. As for his being exposed by the vast, left wing conspiracy....perhaps it is best to not accuse someone else of letting one rip when you've got a turd in your own pants. Not Obama's fault that JtP has been caught with his pants around his ankles.

[PokerDude]

JTP with his pants down?

Umm...what about Ostallin there with his pants down...that little "slip" about "spreading the wealth"?

Oh but that's right....the left and the main stream media don't want to bring that little slip of the tounge up....

[Franny]

America's real Maverick sums up my thoughts on this spread the wealth / tax cuts for the rich debate

The Cure To Our Economic Problems « blog maverick

The Cure To Our Economic Problems

Mark Cuban Blog Entry

Oct 23rd 2008 7:16PM

I would hate to be the winning Presidential candidate. Both candidates are delusional in thinking their economic policies will drag us out of a recession or even improve the economy. The reality is that the solutions offered by both are the equivalent of shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic. They are meaningless.

You can cut taxes for 95pct of Americans and raise taxes for the rest. You can cut taxes for businesses and retain the Bush Tax Cuts. You can increase or decrease the capital gains tax 5 or 10pct either way. Under both programs the deficit for the country will increase, we will borrow and print more money. 5 or 10pct variance either way, given the big hole our economy is in wont matter.

The cure for what ails is us the Entrepreneurial Spirit of this country. We are a nation of people who encourage , support and invest in those of any and all age, race and gender who will use their ingenuity and come up with a new idea.

Its always the new idea that re energizes this country. Industry, manufacturing, transportation, technology, digital communications, etc, each changed how we lived and ignited our economy and standard of living. Tax policy has never done that. The American People have.

Entrepreneurs who create something out of nothing don’t care what tax rates are. Bill Gates didn’t monitor the marginal tax rate when he dropped out of Harvard and started MicroSoft (btw, it was a ton higher than it is today). Michael Dell didn’t wonder what the capital gains tax was when he started PC’s Limited, and then grew it into Dell Computer. I doubt that any great business or invention started with a discussion or even a consideration of what the current or projected income or capital gains tax was or would be.

The impact of tax rates on productivity and development is something economists masterbate about, enterpreneurs don’t waste their time thinking about it. We have business to do.

Entrepreneurs live to be entrepreneurs. I have never had a discussion with anyone about starting a business that included tax rates. Ever. If anyone that wanted an investment from me made a point of discussing tax rates as an impact on their business, I wouldnt invest in them. Ever.

Entrepreneurs live for the juice of making their dreams come true. Of having a vision and fighting to see it come true. The joy of mission accomplished and the scoreboard of the financial rewards.

We are in an economic mess right now. It doesn’t matter who caused it. It’s here. It doesn’t matter what our Presidential candidates and their economic advisors come up with. Its meaningless.

The cure to our economic problems is the Entrepreneurial Spirit of All Americans. Instead of bitching at each other, could one Presidential candidate please show even the least bit of leadership and character and stand up for and encourage the entrepreneurs in this country ?

i dont care who is friends with whom, who preached when you went to church, whether you know the actual role of the Vice President, whether you voted with President Bush. I dont care about any of the mudslinging going back and forth. All it does is waste the time of every potential voter. All of that is meaningless.

What we need is our candidates to stop yelling at each other and starting looking at the American people and encouraging the best of who we are. That is who I want to get behind. That is what I would like to see for our country. That is what will energize and motivate people to create companies and invent products that will turn the economy.

The best time for little guys to start a business is when the big guys are worrying about surviving in theirs. You dont need to raise money. You need to be smart and be focused. I had no idea until this current financial crisis that when I started MicroSolutions, my first company, it was in the middle of a very bad recession. I had no idea whatsoever. I didnt know what the tax rates were, and I didnt care. I had an idea, a floor to sleep on and a lot of motivation.

Now is the time for Entrepreneurs to step up and do our part for our country. Its up to us to start businesses and create jobs. That is the cure to this country’s economic problems.

I think we can all agree that Cubes knows a little more about building a business than a guy like JtP who lives in his "I'll be making $250,000.00 real soon" fantasy world. Well, thereagain, I guess he could be making that much after he signs his new Book Deal. So much for wanting out of the spotlight.

[millslite]

Originally Posted by Degobah

Not Obama's fault that JtP has been caught with his pants around his ankles.

Hmmmm.....First, you stalked my post with a simple <thumb's up>, then you use the catchphrase "pants around his ankles". Sounds like someone from Lance's old forum posing as a Degobah.....

[master_of_muppets]

with all due respect to mr. cuban (and i mean that literally) i think he's missing the point of all the discussion over tax rates.

i see two distinct conversations happening: ideological and literal.

the literal view is probably taken by a very small sampling of tax payers, mainly investors or the like. the majority, though, aren't so much wrapped up in the rate as they are in the idea. when obama states that he wants to share the wealth, it's not the tax rate at the center of the conversation, but the idea behind what he proposes.

i'll give to the govt. what it asks, and where it allows opportunity for me to keep more, i'll do that, too. but i just think that mr. cuban wrote a nice piece while missing the obvious.

however, his missed point about tax rates aside, i agree completely about this being the time to start and grow a business by working smarter. i'm taking a break right now from writing 4 proposals for new projects. i can easily see hiring someone full or part-time by this time next year. politics are fun to debate and argue about, when when i close down Firefox or leave the coffee shop after a lively debate on politics, it's back to the real stuff.

[osu99jp]

JTP for Congress!

The Hill's Blog Briefing Room » 'Joe the Plumber' Mulling Run for Congress

[Franny]

Originally Posted by osu99jp

JTP for Congress!

The Hill's Blog Briefing Room » 'Joe the Plumber' Mulling Run for Congress

That would be interesting. I hear a lot of talk about "Palin POTUS 2012." Sarah and Joe both seem to have a lot of rabid, obsessed fans (like Laura Ingraham), but they both have an even larger amount of hataz.