Joe the Plumber = Fraud?

[Franny]

Last night when I was watching the debate I sort of assumed "Joe the Plumber" was a real, concerned voter who was genuinely interested in the candidate's approach to handling the concerns of a small business owner.

But then I heard him on McConnel this morning. The dude is nothing more than a right-wing Muppet-style idealouge. He went as far as to call Obama a Marxist. He spent the entire interview spewing off rehearsed republican talking points.

It's kind of sad really. This guy deserves no special treatment from the government. He even stated he had no plans to grow the business (and create new jobs). He wants to stay small for "quality." I hope this guy is exposed.

He is however, a "big bengals fan"

[osu99jp]

Didn't hear the interview. But the guy hardly sounds like the next Sean Hannity in this report. Sounds like he simply has a honest, core disagreement with Obama's tax policy. I can't believe the guy (Obama) is actually continuing to play the "they (the rich) can afford it" card. It's extremely um...cheap.

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Hope Ditto Report:

John McCain may have found a blue-collar face to help him argue that no American -- not even the richest 5 percent -- should pay higher taxes.

"Joe The Plumber" has weighed in on Wednesday's presidential debate and he says that Barack Obama's tax plan "infuriates me."

"To be honest with you, that infuriates me," plumber Joe Wurzelbacher told Nightline's Terry Moran. "It's not right for someone to decide you made too much---that you've done too good and now we're going to take some of it back."

"That's just completely wrong," he added.

Wurzelbacher told Nightline he heard some "scuttlebutt" that he might be raised at Wednesday's debate. He added, however, that he was not formally told by the McCain campaign of the Senator's plans.

The plumber's brush with fame began on Sunday when he confronted Barack Obama outside of Toledo, Ohio. Wurzelbacher challenged the Democratic candidate on his plan to raise taxes on the top five percent of earners -- a policy which would, by the Obama campaign's own estimation, mean higher taxes for 184,000 small businesses.

"I'm getting ready to buy a company that makes 250 to 280 thousand dollars a year," Wurzelbacher told Obama. "Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?"

Under Obama's plan, individuals making more than $200,000 per year, or couples making more than $250,000 per year, would pay higher taxes on income, capital gains, and dividends. Starting ten years from now, Obama supports an additional 2-4 percent tax on individual income above $250,000 per year to help shore up the Social Security system.

To evaluate how Wurzelbacher and his wife would fare under Obama, one would need to know his wife's income (if any) plus what the plumber meant when he told Obama that the company he is getting ready to buy "makes" $250,000 - $280,000 per year.

Was Wurzelbacher referring to gross revenue or net profits?

Obama's higher taxes on small businesses would be leveled against those whose net profits exceed $250,000 per year, according to Obama's campaign.

While at least 184,000 small businesses would face higher taxes under Obama, the Illinois Democrat is also proposing a series of tax credits that could aid small businesses.

Obama has proposed a $3,000 tax credit for every new job that companies create in the United States over the next two years, a small business health tax credit on up to 50 percent of employee premiums paid by employers, and elimination of capital gains taxes on investments in small and start-up businesses.

Regardless of how Wurzelbacher would personally fare under the candidates' plans, he suggested to ABC News' Nightline that he is against all forms of progressive taxation.

During his telephone interview with ABC News, the Ohio plumber argued that the government should not tax some Americans at a higher percentage than others and argued that this principle should extend not only to taxpayers at his income-level but also to the world's richest man.

"I don't like it," said Wurzelbacher. "You know, me or -- you know, Bill Gates, I don't care who you are. If you worked for it, if it was your idea, and you implemented it, it's not right for someone to decide you made too much."

[PokerDude]

Demowhack....

Fraudulent is letting your self believe that what Ostallin last night was not "marxist". What part of of "I want those behind you to be successful too" do you NOT get as taking from the rich and giving to the poor?

So what if JTP does not have any plans to "grow" the business. Maybe it is big enough now? Why grow into something that gets out of hand? I get that...totally...see it every day in this fucking dishonest backstabbing industry Bearcat and I work in. People get to big and end up failing because they don't keep tabs on what is going on...and who pays for those failures...in the end All of Us....so to me it sounds like he has a sound idea for where he wants the business to go and what he wants it to do. Who the fuck are you to tell him otherwise? Why do you even care?

Point is....Ostallin just capped the "American Dream" at 250k or less...wow....that's some inspiration there.

A right wing muppetstyle idealog...wow...nope....JTP is what we in the real world call...and average guy....who works for a living. Not some piece of shit younger generation kid with a sense of entitlement who thinks the world owes him something. Not someone who thinks that health care should be a "right", "the wealth should be spread around"...that "someone should take care of me". Bullshit.

Me and the Muppetfuck will continue to have our issues...but as a small business owner himself...he is spot on with what he says about how this shit will impact everyone. That is why I have let him go off on you Demowhacks and Liberal Goons with no restraint....BECAUSE HE GETS IT.

Understand this....if your company you work for makes over 250k....YOU will feel the pain of Ostallins "tax cuts". Where do you think it goes? You think your owner will just up and say "ok time to pay more taxes"? Hell no he is going to pay more taxes with YOUR $$....YOUR SALARY....YOUR JOB by cutting it to cut costs to be able to AFFORD to be in business.

Everyone wants to claim how McCain did himself no better last night. But that comes from the folks who wanted to see an ole' fashion knock down drag out on the stage...I think he did just fine. He held his own...raised his points...and did his thing. Essentially he could have quit after the JTP scene..."spread the wealth" should be enough....IT BETTER BE ENOUGH with those that think with their wallets and NOT THEIR ASSES.

I came in this morning and put it out on the table to young punks here...."you may want to think about what may happen after Election Day if Obama gets in...there will be changes".

[Franny]

Originally Posted by osu99jp

Didn't hear the interview. But the guy hardly sounds like the next Sean Hannity in this report. Sounds like he simply has a honest, core disagreement with Obama's tax policy. I can't believe the guy (Obama) is actually continuing to play the "they (the rich) can afford it" card. It's extremely um...cheap.

I may onto something here. Isnt it convienent that his "business" will be making $250,000.00 next year? c'mon!

Martin Eisenstadt’s Blog » Blog Archive » Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating. Oops.

Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher related to Charles “the Crook” Keating. Oops.
October 15th, 2008 . by Marty

John McCain did great tonight in the debate. But every time John mentioned “Joe the Plumber,” some of us in the campaign banged our heads against the wall. If Steve Schmidt had any hair left, I hear he would have been pulling it out tonight. He reportedly screamed at John’s debate prep team tonight (out of earshot of reporters, of course). “You idiots - he’s related to Charles Keating… of the Keating Five scandal!” They thought they had a real live Joe Six-Pack who’s spurned Barack Obama’s tax plan. But what they forgot to do was check on Joe Wurzelbacher’s background.

Turns out that Joe Wurzelbacher from the Toledo event is a close relative of Robert Wurzelbacher of Milford, Ohio. Who’s Robert Wurzelbacher? Only Charles Keating’s son-in-law and the former senior vice president of American Continental, the parent company of the infamous Lincoln Savings and Loan. The now retired elder Wurzelbacher is also a major contributor to Republican causes giving well over $10,000 in the last few years.

Does any of this make Joe the Plumber a bad guy? Of course not. In fact, after that ill-fated night at the Watergate, he may finally be giving plumbers a good name. But at a debate where John goes full bore on Obama for guilt-by-association with William Ayers (and dodges a bullet by Obama not mentioning Keating Five), the press is going to bring it back front and center by midday tomorrow once they delve deeper into the most popular plumber in America.

This might remind you of the Paris Hilton scandal - where one side of the McCain campaign attacked her in an ad, not realizing that her family were huge donors. I was the first to warn the campaign of the perils of miscommunication within the campaign, and that story flared for a week.

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[osu99jp]

LOL, that is pretty funny if it's all true.

[bearcat428]

this is typical of the left, i even heard biden attacked "joe wurzelbacher". the point is what "joe w." has nothing to do with it. it's what "joe the plumber" said and obama's response. that's it. what obama said when he didn't realize he was on camera (showing that he is a marxist, which he tries to hide in public) just like biden talking about coal off camera (showing his true colors which he tries to hide in public). that's the point of the associations, that this guy is not what he portrays to the public.

[osu99jp]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

this is typical of the left, i even heard biden attacked "joe wurzelbacher". the point is what "joe w." has nothing to do with it. it's what "joe the plumber" said and obama's response. that's it. what obama said when he didn't realize he was on camera (showing that he is a marxist, which he tries to hide in public) just like biden talking about coal off camera (showing his true colors which he tries to hide in public). that's the point of the associations, that this guy is not what he portrays to the public.

I agree. But I would find this entire thing hilarious if it's all true and the guy is some Republican prop that was planted at an Obama rally. Couldn't they have at least found and paid off some other plumber to confront Obama, rather than Charles Keating's son-in-law? As if that bit of information wouldn't be uncovered..

[Franny]

Keep in mind I knew nothing of all this at 9AM. I knew he was a fraud when I heard the McConnel interview. It was like he was reading a script from a piece of paper. Actually, it sounded like the whole interview, including Mike's questions were scripted.

Why do we know Joe is a fake? There was an f'n newspaper sitting with him during the debate, taking photos!

Debate puts 'Joe the Plumber' in international spotlight

The fact that the guy is related to Keating just makes it that much juicier. I hope Letterman gets this info before tonight's interview.

[PokerDude]

Demowhack you have gone off the edge.....deep deep deep into the universe of liberalism where no sense of reality exists......god help you son.....

[Franny]

Originally Posted by PokerDude

Demowhack you have gone off the edge.....deep deep deep into the universe of liberalism where no sense of reality exists......god help you son.....

There is no liberalism expressed in this thread. We're talking about Joe the Plumber - is he real or fake... It's an interesting story/potential scandal.

If I posted a thread promoting tax hikes and government programs - that would be me posting liberal ideas.

[master_of_muppets]

franny: are you self-employed and responsible for creating jobs and growing a business as a sole-prop or officer of a corporation?

if not, you should probably STFU because to those of us who have the responsibility of making the bills by our own hard work, you sound like a fool.

McCain found his poster child, and it's too close to the election for Joe's aunt's, brother's, next door neighbor's friend connection to matter.

Joe's point is clear to me and those i employ. a vote for obama will raise taxes on businesses that create jobs.

you don't raise taxes in this evnironment, especially on the people and individuals whom CREATE JOBS.

obama has never created a job. obama has never had to pay quarterly taxes for a business. he has never had to make payroll, or forecast P&L.

a vote for obama is a vote to NOT give yourself a raise over the next 4 years.

[PokerDude]

Well said Muppetfuck....well said. 150.52% dead on accurate.

[Franny]

Originally Posted by master_of_muppets

franny: are you self-employed and responsible for creating jobs and growing a business as a sole-prop or officer of a corporation?

if not, you should probably STFU because to those of us who have the responsibility of making the bills by our own hard work, you sound like a fool.

McCain found his poster child, and it's too close to the election for Joe's aunt's, brother's, next door neighbor's friend connection to matter.

Joe's point is clear to me and those i employ. a vote for obama will raise taxes on businesses that create jobs.

you don't raise taxes in this evnironment, especially on the people and individuals whom CREATE JOBS.

obama has never created a job. obama has never had to pay quarterly taxes for a business. he has never had to make payroll, or forecast P&L.

a vote for obama is a vote to NOT give yourself a raise over the next 4 years.

No one is debating what Joe represents... this thread is about the validity of the McCain campaign's claims that Joe is just some random Joe Sixpack business owner who approached Obama at a rally and that all this attention was not staged.

McCain aides say there was no heads-up for Joe the Plumber, who's headed out to the morning shows tomorrow.

"Joe didn't know" that he'd be at the center of the debate," said Matt McDonald.

"We tried to call him during the debate, but his phone was busy," he said. "We're not going to put him through media training."

[master_of_muppets]

franny, the legitimacy of joe cannot be exclusive of what he represents.

by your own logic, if he is a fraud, then what he represents is invalid.

yet somehow, to you, if he's not a fraud, then what?

it's like that bullshit you tried running up a few days about about ACORN being involved in voter registration fraud, as if the registration fraud could somehow be a totally separate issue from voting fraud.


here's what's going on: before the VP debate i told my wife and friends that if Palin was regarded as having "tied" in the aftermath by ACBNBCCBSCNNNPR, then that meant she won. there's no way Big Media gives victory to someone on the Right. no way in hell.

similarly, last night McCain wiped the floor with Obama. we got the only gems of all three debates from McCain (telling Obama that he should have ran 4 years ago, and the Joe The Plumber bits).

knowing that Obama was kept on the defense last night, and was exposed for the Neo-Socialist he his, Big Media comes to his rescue - again - and goes after Joe The Plumber.

over the course of today and into next week, as Joe becomes more and more of a centerpiece in McCain's end game, we will see story after story, report after report written with excruciating detail, graphics, and so on explaining why Joe wouldn't be as hurt by Obama as he really will be. we will see Big Media do their hardest work to protect Sen. Obama.

but, honestly, i don't know what the end result will be. McCain stands to gain a lot from Joe's story. i know of 2 Obama supporters whom I have changed their minds to vote McCain on the tax issue alone. i can't say what they'll do in the voting booth, but they can no longer defend Obama when we talk, and are worried about how Obama will increase the cost of doing business for their employers, which has a MUCH greater impact on their income than Obama's laughable $1k "break."

[Franny]

Anyways, back to the topic of the thread...

Turns out it doesn't even matter what Joe thinks of Obama's tax plan. He isn't even registered to vote.

Ben Smith's Blog: The Joe file - Politico.com

Why take the time away from your growing/busy business to attend a candidate's rally if you aren't even registered to vote for said candidate in the first place? This whole thing is just dumb.