Reconciliation

[NoGrinds]

The Dems are threatening reconciliation to pass healthcare reform.

1. Do you guys think they would actually do it?
2. Is it political suicide or not?

I personally think it is just a tactic used in negotiation. I do not think the majority of Americans would be very happy with this being used.

Thoughts?

[Franny]

RAHM IT THROUGH as Drudge always says.

From what I gather, and despite what Sean Hannity may tell you, most Americans support the Public Option. This will move could save the Dems.

I also don't think the majority of Americans even understand what the hell is happening here.

[bearcat428]

over 60% of americans want congress to scrap healthcare reform.

elitist/left perspective, americans are too dumb to understand..... no, we understand what's going on.

[Tedesco]

Saying Americans want Congress to do something does not equate to them understanding what they want Congress to do. Some people do not want health care reform simply because "Obama is a Socialist". That does not mean that they are intelligent nor informed.

Also, you make a comment like leftist/elitist... are you that stupid to think that the right isn't fraught with elitists? Of course not. Go ahead and bash someone for being leftist, but being elite? That is an arrogance that crosses both sides of the aisle.

[master_of_muppets]

i think congress gets such low marks is because the half that want govt. in every nook of their pathetic lives are upset that their Big Govt Nanny isn't giving them the teet they think they're entitled to. the other half that dream of "the good old days" (which never existed" and use phrases like "take America back..." (equally pathetic) just want Obama's big black caring hands to go away.

if health care reform is going to get done, then i say do it huge… do it so that it either just totally fucking bankrupts our infant country, or launches us into a socialist utopia. this halfsy nonsense gets nothing done.

what i know is this: Anthem just raised my monthly bill by 40% because they accurately predicted that we would be trying for another kid right now. pregnancy coverage is the oft-cited reason for rate rape by insurance co's. and that may very well be the case. i have no idea what their costs-to-profit ratios need to be.

all i know is that i can't cross the Ohio River to get real competition for insurance. i'm stuck with the shitty offerings in Ohio, and that sucks. give me the real free market or give me the Govt Sphincter Exchange by which everything moves through. i don't care. i just want the insurance i buy for my family and i to be less expensive.

[bearcat428]

Originally Posted by Tedesco

Saying Americans want Congress to do something does not equate to them understanding what they want Congress to do.

i never said one meant the other. the two statements aren't even in the same paragraph.

Originally Posted by Tedesco

Also, you make a comment like leftist/elitist... are you that stupid to think that the right isn't fraught with elitists? Of course not. Go ahead and bash someone for being leftist, but being elite? That is an arrogance that crosses both sides of the aisle.

a leftist/elitist believes government knows best and will push for government take over of, in this case healthcare, regardless of what the american people want. that would be more government, which is the opposite of less government, which those of us on the right support. stupidity may be taking something completely out of context.

[Tedesco]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

stupidity may be taking something completely out of context.

Or it could be not even comprehending what was written.

re: your first comment - I wasn't saying you said anything. I was making a general statement that not all of the 60% of Americans actually know what they want.

re: your second comment - Elitists are on both sides, and in my opinion, place themselves above party. You say lefist/elitist as if there are no elitists on the right. Just say leftist. You sound like a Fox parrot when you try to equate people who lean to the left as elitists. You take pride in saying that the right is against "Big Government", though what you don't say is that the right fully embraces "Big Business". Different parent; same control.

[NoGrinds]

[quote=Franny;46142][b][u]
From what I gather, and despite what Sean Hannity may tell you, most Americans support the Public Option. This will move could save the Dems.
QUOTE]

Franny, can you cite anything to support what you "gather?"

This is a pretty bold statement to claim most Americans want a public option.

I think ALL Americans want cheaper insurance. But, I think there is a spattering of different opinions on how said Americans want this to be accomplished.

[Franny]

Originally Posted by NoGrinds

Franny, can you cite anything to support what you "gather?"

This is a pretty bold statement to claim most Americans want a public option.

Once again, flip off the Fox News and program the Net Nanny to block access tothe Drudge Report. Turn off Rush & Beck. The world just might seem a little different out there.

Most in U.S. want public health option: poll | Reuters

regarding the use of the word elitist:
People @ Fox News think anyone that isn't employed by Fox News and reads is an "elitist." This is probably the most over-used word by The Right today.

[osu99jp]

Franny, I think we interpreted that article differently, and you may have misrepresented its findings. I think the article intentionally refers to "a" public option multiple times, and not "the" public option that has been proposed - because Americans support the ideal of the perfect public option...but don't think it is feasible. At least, not at this time.

I think most Americans would support "a" public option that accomplishes its stated goals - to provide insurance to the uninsured, to keep the private ripoff health insurers in check, and to drive down costs for everyone. Problem is, Americans are skeptical that this can actually be accomplished. Otherwise, it would've passed by now. A public option that expands coverage to include everyone, lowers everyone's tax bill and out-of-pocket expenses, and doesn't increase the amount of time you'd have to wait to actually see a doctor? Who would oppose something like that?

It'd be like polling people, asking if they'd be in favor of eating pizza, beer and ice cream every day, provided it didn't make them fat. Yeah, people would probably like that idea..but they'd be skeptical of the claim that it wouldn't make them fat.


re: Franny pulling the "Fox News" card again:

Franny, why must it always come to this? As soon as people express a Conservative viewpoint on an issue, you can rest assured Franny will mock them for having a television with only one channel - Fox News - and a computer with only one webpage - Drudge Report. They are spoon-fed their opinions by Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. As if they are brain-dead Republi-zombies. Some might consider your attitude a bit.......elitist? Perhaps condescending? Why are these people like bearcats428 and NyetGrinds incapable of coming up with these stances on their own through careful thought? Why should anyone take your opinions on Fox News seriously to begin with, when your blind hatred of them is so clear?

[Tedesco]

There are certain buzz words of the week that Fox likes to use. When I hear them used on this site I can't help but think that the ones posting are regurgitating what they hear from Fox.

Fox has a tendency to make up news. The channel contradicts itself in an effort to constantly be right. It's these actions that strip Fox of credibility from those who aren't members of their ardent fanbase.

[Tedesco]

Originally Posted by osu99jp

Americans are skeptical that this can actually be accomplished. Otherwise, it would've passed by now.

American skepticism has nothing to do with the bill getting passes. Noncooperation between parties, on the other hand, has everything to do with it. The public interest is not the interest here. How bad the Republicans can make the Dems bend over and look weak is.

[bearcat428]

Originally Posted by Tedesco

There are certain buzz words of the week that Fox likes to use. When I hear them used on this site I can't help but think that the ones posting are regurgitating what they hear from Fox.

Fox has a tendency to make up news. The channel contradicts itself in an effort to constantly be right. It's these actions that strip Fox of credibility from those who aren't members of their ardent fanbase.

all of that must be why it's the most trusted
Poll reveals overall declining trust in news media

maybe you could keep us updated on what the weekly "buzz word" is tedesco

[Tedesco]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

all of that must be why it's the most trusted
Poll reveals overall declining trust in news media

No shock there

Rachel Maddow Spars With Glenn Beck Over Bill Nye And Climate Change | Mediaite

[Franny]

Originally Posted by osu99jp

Problem is, Americans are skeptical that this can actually be accomplished. Otherwise, it would've passed by now

WTF does this even mean? America's skepticism of health care reform does not directly effect votes. This is simply a case of one party obstructing the other so reform never occurs. This is all about politics and nothing to do with public confidence or interests.

And regarding your attack on me about my references to Fox News and Drudge- you're probably right I do not give many of these right wing posters the benefit of the doubt but I pay close attention to the Drudge-Rush-Fox flow of news (watch it for yourself, In the morning Drudge first posts an article with bias headline, in the afternoon AM radio picks it up and determines the spin/talking points and Fox News (Hannity, Beck, etc) closes out the topic at night - it is repeated each and every day) and I can tell you I see very little evidence of these individuals "coming up with their own stances." In fact out of the lot, Master of Muppets is the only one. You can try to label me elitist, but that's just what I observe.

And I really don't have "blind hatred" for Fox News, I just hate it when (and I hear this a lot) - people think they are some sort of underground organization providing the "real" truth while the rest of the "mainstream media" is part of some government conspiracy. Then they boast about Fox News ratings. If Fox News is far and away the most watched news network, wouldn't they be the "mainstream media?" Fox is what it is, porno/entertainment for conservatives - but don't try to convince me it's a legitimate source for news.