The Surge

[bearcat428]

As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts - New York Times

I love it! the surge is working and the dems positioned themselves as defeatists.

I flew to Savannah Ga last Sunday with some rangers on leave. They reinforced the news of improvement over there. They were in an area of Iraq that Americans had not entered until recently because it was too dangerous.

The dems still want to cut and run. As opposed to that, I'm proud to be a part of freeing a nation of millions.

[master_of_muppets]

i might be one of the few Conservatives who think the wars the USA are conducting in the middle east are a load of crap. call it "cut and run" or whatever - i call it common sense. we have no business conducting a war at that PRICE.

look at the Fed Govt like a business, and any smart business person will conclude that the ROI is simply not there.

i'm not about to pat the Dems on the back either - their motivation is something i neither trust nor understand. but i do not see how a true Conservative can support these wars.

[PokerDude]

MOP

One minute you are a liberal, the next you are a conservative...pick a side.

Concerning what our business is, the business of the government and military in this country is to keep its' people safe and give them security. If that means they need to go SOMEWHERE ELSE to do that rather than DO THAT HERE...I'm okay with it. Not that I agree 100% with everything that has gone.

[master_of_muppets]

true Conservatism would certainly confuse the FOXNEWS-polluted minds of so-called conservatives today. i am not a leftist liberal. i am a Conservative if there ever was one.

and because i am, the idea of "exporting Democracy" (sean hannity's, and others, words) is absurd to me. that is not true Conservatism.

i cannot say in one concise statement why it is that we are in these wars. and to use the word "terrorism" just dumbs-down the conversation. what kind of terrorism are we talking about? if it's generalized, why not launch similar attacks in places where terrorism really is a problem? it was not a problem in iraq before bush made it one.

therein lies the key - i, along with many others, do not see bush and his ilk as conservatives or even in-line with the traditional GOP. they are their own thread of horrible people.

[bearcat428]

In one word, stability. It's why we stopped dessert storm when we did. and among other things, it is about maintaining the flow of oil. What people don't think about is outside of energy, petroleum is everywhere in our life from drugs to our TV. If oil flow from the middle east stopped because of a war, our economy would be in shambles. Not a recession, a depression. One reason among many.

[PokerDude]

ROI on the lives of those that protect the very freedom that gives you the right to flap your yap as you see fit.....

Young man there is never going to be a positive return on investment on those that give their lives in service or in death for this country and you should be ashamed of even making such a comparison. That is truly pathetic...

[PokerDude]

Originally Posted by master_of_muppets

. i am not a leftist liberal. i am a Conservative if there ever was one.

Hmmm....from your pinko commi fag thread:

"i am curious, though, as to the political persuasion of the regulars. i am a Libertarian"

That fence must be low...or you are getting one helluva workout jumping over that high one.

Nice one Hillary. I'll make sure my military aquaintances know your displeasure in the lack of return you are getting on your "investment".

[master_of_muppets]

ummm.... PD, have you looked up "Libertarian" ...ever? we Libertarians are many things, but there is quite a difference between a liberal and a Libertarian.

the core belief of Libertarians is this: small govt. = good govt.
we want as small a govt. as possible. any card-carrying Libertarian wants the removal of 90% (or more) of the existing Depts. of State. that includes, but is not limited to: Education, Ag., Transportation, CIA, IRS, Homeland Security, et al.

we believe that there should be a very minimal flat tax for everyone, and that being rich is a GOOD thing. we believe in free trade, and an open market.

and in case you're having trouble connecting the dots, all of that means that wars conducted in the name of nuance are a waste of time, resources, life, and money. keep our boys and girls on our borders, where they should be.

as for ROI - my family has given a life to the first gulf war. i am way more than merely qualified to speak about ROI in terms of the bottom-line.

[HilltopperRuss]

Bearcat, you were in the company of some of the finest people in the world.

I don't care if you are GOP, Dem, Libertarian, Green Party or Ind. they will all do the same thing when they are elected. They will do what they want and screw the people. They have a lot of friends who are making money off this war.

All you hear is should we be there or not. Well friends, we are there. And while we are there we should think of only one thing. Support our troops.

[PokerDude]

Bearcat if you have read Stormin Norman's It Doesn't Take a Hero you will understand why the first war did not "get finished". Didn't really have so much to do with stability or pushing back the "agressor" it had everything with not screwing up the already screwed up world of "islam" and our sandy buddies. People forget the Saudis only let us in there because they realized Hussein was coming for them too, it was the "go ahead and get him out of Kuwait, but don't kill him he is our brother in islam" routine. Another reason these idiots should be rid from the earth but that is another discussion....

The way I look at it, a lib is a lib is a lib is a lib is nut job. And THAT's PD's bottom line....

[master_of_muppets]

PD & HTR, i respect you guys' take on sports, but on politics, you're fucking nuts. your afore-mentioned logic is why i believe there should be a test to screen out stupid voters.

[V3n0M]

Former Iraq Commander Backs Democrats on Pullout

"Sanchez, who has spoken out against the Bush administration's handling of the war and has assailed current war strategy as doomed to fail, plans to argue that the United States cannot win in Iraq with the military alone and that it is prudent to bring troops home to bolster national security."

[bearcat428]

Yea...perfect example.

REALITY CHECK, WE'RE WINNING. In some ways he's right. The Marines are complaining if all they're going to do is build schools and fix roads, then the Army can do that.

Another reality check last night on OReily who visited Afghanistan. We're winning there too, despite the insurgents from god damn Pakistan, and the media.

[bearcat428]

oh, and the weapons Iran is blatantly supplying against us that the media won't cover.

[HilltopperRuss]

Why, MOM, because we don't agree with your beliefs? Who made you the all knowing seer of politics to say someone is stupid because they don't agree with you?

You say that oil is the source of many of the problems. Most five year olds know that.

You talk about the right to talk because of a loss in the first gulf. Well I also have a little knowledge and think I can speak on the subject. I had a son in the first gulf and my grandson is now being sent back for his third tour. So don't feel like you are the only one with relitives in the conflict.