Creeping up to $4 Gas

[bearcat428]

taxing gasoline penalizes me for working in my business, and my subs. it ends up costing business more than the individual. he is a dumb ass, he's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

if you want to change the tax system, there should be a flat tax and that's it. i don't need government deciding what they want me to do and force the behavior through taxes.

[White Magic]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

taxing gasoline penalizes me for working in my business, and my subs. it ends up costing business more than the individual.

Your position suggests you have zero ability to pass any kind of increase in fuel costs on to your customers. I seriously doubt this is the case. Channel 5 did a big story last night about how prices at the St. Gertrude festival for food and ride tickets were more than they have been in the past because of the increased fuel costs involved in getting the festival set up. Surely you are as capable a manager of your business as the festival organizers.

Taxes are taxes are taxes. They all suck but some make more sense than others. A tax on gasoline will always make more sense than a tax on an individual's income.

Bearcat428: Have you started thinking about ways you can change your business to make it less reliant on gasoline? Maybe you should think about going into a different kind of business.

[White Magic]

I know I'm a repetitive bastard, but I can't help myself...

From Charlie Wheelan's latest Yahoo Finance column:

(The whole article is worth reading by the way...)

Gas prices are at $4 a gallon and still headed north.

So far, the obvious things have happened: SUV sales are plummeting, airlines are mothballing gas-guzzling planes, Americans are driving fewer miles for the first time in modern history, and mass-transit ridership is growing everywhere.

That's pretty much what economics would predict. When something gets more expensive, people try to avoid the pain. The best way to avoid the pain of higher gas prices is to use less of it.

I will add, perhaps gratuitously, that the behavioral changes we're seeing now are exactly why we should have implemented a carbon tax (with offsetting income tax or payroll tax cuts) 10 years ago. Given that we have to raise revenue somehow, we ought to do it by taxing behaviors that we would prefer to discourage. An income tax discourages work; a carbon tax discourages pollution. Which one makes more sense to you?

[bearcat428]

Originally Posted by White Magic

Your position suggests you have zero ability to pass any kind of increase in fuel costs on to your customers. I seriously doubt this is the case. Channel 5 did a big story last night about how prices at the St. Gertrude festival for food and ride tickets were more than they have been in the past because of the increased fuel costs involved in getting the festival set up. Surely you are as capable a manager of your business as the festival organizers.

Taxes are taxes are taxes. They all suck but some make more sense than others. A tax on gasoline will always make more sense than a tax on an individual's income.

Bearcat428: Have you started thinking about ways you can change your business to make it less reliant on gasoline? Maybe you should think about going into a different kind of business.

of course i am and all other businesses are, causing the cost of everything to go up.

if everyone in my industry looked for a different kind of business, you wouldn't have roads to drive on, bridges to cross, a home to sleep in, a store to shop in ......

and as for ways to raise revenue. how about reducing the amount of revenue needed? you know, if you're going to push for something, why not get to the root of the problem. otherwise you're only empowering the problem.

[White Magic]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

and as for ways to raise revenue. how about reducing the amount of revenue needed? you know, if you're going to push for something, why not get to the root of the problem. otherwise you're only empowering the problem.

I agree that government spending should be curtailed - no argument from me. But this is an altogether different discussion.

[White Magic]

Foreign Policy: The List: Five Reasons to Love $4 Gas

[Franny]

Originally Posted by White Magic

Foreign Policy: The List: Five Reasons to Love $4 Gas

I hate this bullshit! Every day now you hear some whack job (mainly on Fox Business) saying how great it is that everyone is on the subway. Fuck that. I don't want to take the Subway or the bus, or the MARTA.

I want to get in the vehicle of my liking and ride comfortably by myself to work without freaking out about a $60 fillup... yeah, I remember those days - December of 07, so long ago!

YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS ONE FOX! AND YOU CAN'T SPIN THE CREDIT CRISIS OR UNEMPLOYMENT! (FACE)

[osu99jp]

In the "it was only a matter of time" department...

I got hit up for money at the gas pump this morning.

[PokerDude]

This is what happens when you deregulate the speculators.

[bearcat428]

drill here, drill now, save.

[Franny]

Originally Posted by bearcat428

drill here, drill now, save.

At the very least.

It's unrealistic to ask everyone to start taking the MARTA to work. Parents can't fit all their screaming babies in Honda Fits. You can't ask the common citizen (who's pockets are already empty) to spend $27,000.00 on a Prius. What you have here is the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of the planet and that wealth isn't exactly landing up in the best hands. Seek alternative energy sources, but for now - we have to increase production or tap into the SPR

[bearcat428]

but "it won't have an impact for 5 years."

which is bullshit, make the commitment, make it happen, and the speculation will be lower prices because they will be lower. and the good point you make franny, is we're funding extremeists that hate us.

drill for christs sake!

[White Magic]

Originally Posted by Franny

YOU CAN'T SPIN THIS ONE FOX! AND YOU CAN'T SPIN THE CREDIT CRISIS OR UNEMPLOYMENT! (FACE)

Why would Fox have an interest in "spinning" the high cost of gasoline? If you believe Fox News is a shill for the Republicans, the Republicans are the ones who've been pushing for more drilling. It's the environmentalist faction of the Democratic party that's against it. So when Fox News has some "whack job" on that extols the virtues of expensive gasoline, who are they shilling for?

I personally don't think more drilling is the answer at this point. The sad truth is that there is no quick fix. It will take a few years of pain at the pumps to transform the American auto fleet, but that'll be a good thing in the long run. The urbanist part of me is excited by the kinds of changes this transformation may produce: More concentration of people in urban centers, and end to the culturally devoid wasteland that is the suburbs, a better downtown with better nightlife, etc. Consider the possibilities!

[Franny]

Maybe you don't watch the Fox Business channel all day like me. The talking heads envision this urban Utopia as well where we all slap on berets & ride mopeds through the brick streets of our towne. Basically the communities de-evolve into Barcelona.

I don't think you'll see more business opening up in downtown centers. You'll see a flood of businesses just being virtualized with everyone working from their own home through broadband. Basically company-wide full time telecommuting. Or basically businesses that consist of one dude firing off orders through Instant Messenger to a bunch of people in India.

[Big Red Mark]

franny hits the nail on the heads. this has become a political topic. republicans want to point blame at the environmentalist liberals who didnt want drilling. they also seem to share one thing in common - a "deal with it" attitude. mccain's answer is to offer $300 million dollar prize for some guy to invent a new car battery. does he think about his statements? thats all nice and dandy but even if this new battery was invented by the end of 2009, you wouldnt see it in vehicles until 2013, and no one would have money left to afford one, just like very few americans can afford the hybrids referenced in this blog. the difference between $3 gas and $4 gas is a 200 BILLION dollars hit to the country's economy each and every year.

the fact of the matter is the RATE of crude price increase does not correspond to the rate of growth/demand for india and china. republicans can laugh at us who mention the word speculation, but i wouldnt be surprised if there is a fair amount of that going on. this truly is a crisis and we need immediate solutions, not solutions based around non-existent technology.